Episode 541
with Molly Shannon and Tuelo
Host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello share some stories of when our listeners went "over the top;" actor and comedian Molly Shannon chats about her memoir Hello Molly and how she championed her famous character Mary Katherine Gallagher for Saturday Night Live; South African rocker Tuelo explains why she secretly believes her native Mwana tribe inspired rock 'n roll music; plus, Tuelo performs the track "Trouble" off her debut album The Life of Margaret Cornelius.
Molly Shannon
Actor and Comedian
Molly Shannon is an Emmy-nominated actor and comedian who was a cast member on Saturday Night Live from 1995 to 2001. She has starred in countless films, including Superstar, Wet Hot American Summer, and Other People, for which she won an Independent Spirit Award. She has also worked extensively in TV, notably on HBO series Enlightened, Divorce, and The White Lotus. She wrote a children’s book, Tilly the Trickster, that was released in 2011. Her raw and deeply personal memoir, Hello, Molly!, was released in 2022. Amy Schumer said the book was “life-changing,” while Publishers Weekly, in a starred review, called it “supremely inspiring.” Instagram
Tuelo
Singer-Songwriter
Tuelo Minah is a South African singer and songwriter who blurs the lines between punk, soul, and rock. Drawing inspiration from the great traditions of South African protest music and the polyrhythms and tonalities of her native Tswana and Khoikhoi tribes, Tuelo’s sound is triumphant, bursting with fantasy, big drums, heavy guitars, and her powerful, wailing voice. Afropunk has called witnessing her performances “an inspiring and spiritual experience.” Her debut single, "Saint Margaret," premiered on Consequence of Sound, and her first studio album, The Life of Margaret Cornelius, which Guitar Girl Magazine called “mystical, soulful and sometimes haunting,” was released in 2022.
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Luke Burbank Hey, Elena.
Elena Passarello Hey. Hey, Luke. How's it going?
Luke Burbank It's going well. Hey, are you ready to play a little "station location identification examination"?
Elena Passarello Yes. Let's do it.
Luke Burbank Okay. This is where I throw out some details about a place in the country where Live Wire is on the radio. And, Elena, you have got to guess where I'm talking about. This is the home of the U.S. National Toboggan Championship, as well as a large fleet of tall, masted schooners known as wind jammers, which is a type of merchant sailing ship that was used in the 19th and 20th century.
Elena Passarello Hmm. Snow and water?
Luke Burbank Yeah, that's the key. That'll keep you-that should keep you in a certain quadrant of the country.
Elena Passarello Is it? See, this is the thing is, like, you don't think about it, but those Great Lakes states had some pretty big ships on them. So it could be, not an ocean Windjammer, it could be like a Lake Superior Windjammer.
Luke Burbank How about this, Edna St. Vincent Millay lived there as an adolescent and wrote her first well-known poems there. Does that help at all?
Elena Passarello That's in Maine somewhere.
Luke Burbank Oh, it's in Camden, Maine.
Elena Passarello Camden, Maine.
Luke Burbank Where we're on the radio on WMEP in Camden. Elena, you never cease to amaze me.
Elena Passarello I was totally going to go Wisconsin, though. I was thinking that this was a trick question until you drop the Millay bomb.
Luke Burbank See, I knew that. I knew that that lit detail would light you up. All right. Should we get going with our radio show?
Elena Passarello Oh, sure. Let's do it.
Luke Burbank All right, take it away.
Elena Passarello From PRX, it's Live Wire. This week, actor and comedian Molly Shannon.
Molly Shannon Finally, one night, my manager showed up at my door smelling of, like, cigarettes and In-N-Out burgers. And I was like, What? Why are you here? And he's like, Oh, got Saturday Night Live.
Elena Passarello And music by Tuelo.
Tuelo This record, the message behind it is very peaceful. It's choosing peace constantly.
Elena Passarello I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in from all over the country, including Camden, Maine. I just realized: Tuelo and Passarello. It could almost be-you guys could maybe take some kind of show on the road or something.
Elena Passarello Yeah, Tuelo and Passarello. We just need to find a like Joe Manganiello could join us I guess the actor from Magic Mike, the Pittsburgh guy.
Luke Burbank All the "ellos" out there. We have a great show in store for you all this week where we are talking to Tuelo and also hearing a song from her and talking to Molly Shannon of Saturday Night Live fame and so many other cool projects. She's got a new memoir out that we're going to be hearing about as well. We also asked Live Wire listeners a question. Tell us about a time you went over the top. Some of Molly Shannon's characters, you know, on SNL in the most delightful of ways, could go a little over. I mean, Mary Katherine Gallagher could really go kind of over the top.
Elena Passarello Yeah. Extra, she's a little extra.
Luke Burbank There you go. That's the more like 2022 parlance. So we've got those answers collected up. I hear there's some real amazing ones in there. We're going to read those responses coming up a little bit later in the show. First, though, of course, we got to kick things off with the best news we heard all week. This right here is our little reminder at the top of the program that there is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what's the best news that you heard all week?
Elena Passarello I have some news of a new art exhibition. And the thing that makes this interesting is the story behind getting the art onto the wall. Let's put it that way. Okay. So about five years ago, there was a contractor in Watertown, Connecticut, named George Martin who was basically just like cleaning out a lot, you know, just sort of like dismantling the barn and getting rid of all the stuff. Nobody wanted any of it. And in the barn, he found a bunch of art, like 50 canvases and some drawings. And some of the art was vaguely automotive in nature. Like there is these kinds of representations of like headlights and things.
Luke Burbank This was like a random estate in Connecticut?
Elena Passarello Yeah. Yeah. And and it wasn't like he was cleaning out a bunch of stuff to have an estate sale with. It was just like, get rid of this junk. But then he called his friend, Jared Whipple, who's an auto mechanic. And I guess he was kind of like, you know, cars. You like cars. And Jared Whipple was like, well, maybe I can put this up in the skate park that I run because of these huge canvases.
Luke Burbank Oh, I see.
Elena Passarello He started Googling the name of the artist Francis Hines, and he discovered that this artist was pretty nationally known. He was born in the 1920s and died in 2006. But in the seventies and eighties, he was New York City's premier wrap artist. And that's w-r-a-p wrap.
Luke Burbank Meaning he would wrap things up in something else?
Elena Passarello That's right. He covered all of these really iconic landmarks in New York City in fabric like JFK, part of the airport, the Washington Square, that beautiful arch that's in all the romantic comedies, it's down by NYU. The Port Authority got the Francis Hines wrap treatment. And wrapping is also a part of these canvases that Gerard Whipple found in the dumpster. He spent four years getting to know the legacy of this artist, connecting with dealers that worked with Francis Hine's work, finding surviving family members. I think his two sons are still alive. And he became very, very invested in this-this artist and really wanted to find an audience for these paintings. He set up a couple of exhibitions, the biggest of which is happening very, very soon at the Hollis Taggart Galleries in New York. And they have appraised the selected art that Jared Whipple has put up for auction, and that collection they think is going to be worth millions of dollars. The large canvases are going to probably go for about 22K a pop, the drawings for about 5K, but the way that this article that I read describes it, the real treat for Jared Whipple, the real honor has been learning about Francis Hines. And now even as much as the money, he says, I just want this man to take his rightful place in the history books as this really interesting and important artist who I guess just happened to have just a bunch of paintings in a barn in one of the places that he lived toward the end of his life.
Luke Burbank That is like the most satisfying Antiques Roadshow outcome.
Elena Passarello I've never stayed awake through an entire Antiques Roadshow. I've never made it to that moment where somebody gets surprised.
Luke Burbank It's like golf. There's a little tryptophan just layered in there. Although I think we learned eventually that tryptophan isn't really what makes you sleepy from turkey.
Elena Passarello Is that right?
Luke Burbank I think that was the latest on that. But listen, we're not here to talk about food science. We're here to talk about loud porcupines. That is-that's the best news that I saw this week. There are these porcupines, four of them that were rescued from the Caldor Fire, which was in the Greater Lake Tahoe area. And the wild porcupine in California is actually a very kind of understudied species because they're very shy and they just kind of stay in trees. And so not a lot is known about them. They also don't think there are a whole lot of them living in California. But unfortunately, because of these wildfires, they had these four porcupines that were burned and injured pretty badly by the fire. So some folks from the Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care Group went out to get them. By the way, the way you get a porcupine is one of the handlers explained is you take a cat carrier and you put some blankets around it and you make the porcupine think that it's like a safe little Snuggie nook, like an underground hole to go into because that's how they got one of these, I think it was P2, to go into.
Elena Passarello Because you're not picking those critters up, I'm assuming like-
Luke Burbank I mean, I've heard they're poky, so yeah, you're kind of maybe you're just encouraging them, but also, you know, you don't want to stress them out too much. So they get these four porcupines, P1, P2, P3, P4, and they get them back to the Lake Tahoe wildlife care facility. And, you know, they needed a lot of a lot of rehabbing, a lot of TLC. P1 had his eyes were burned pretty badly. His nose was actually burned closed. And his quills, some of his quills got burned off. So this was really kind of life and death for these porcupines. So they're nursing him back to health. They're taking care of him and they start videotaping them and putting up the videos on the Instagram page of Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care. And it turns out that porcupines can be pretty verbal, not like necessarily out in the wild unless they need to, but when they're in captivity, like, for instance, porcupines don't like being woken up early in the morning. They had to wake up P3 one time to like clean his cage. And he was sleepy. And this is what it sounds like when a porcupine does not want you waking him up early in the morning to clean his cage. (Porcupine groaning). This is a little shake here (porcupine shakes).
Elena Passarello He shakes his quills.
Luke Burbank He's like, Yeah, come on, come on, give me some space here. I'm trying to sleep.
Elena Passarello It's very Marge Simpson sounding.
Luke Burbank I know. I watched that video on their Instagram page like three or four times. I was like, is the porcupine making this noise? It's so human sounding. But the great news is and why I think this is my best news for this week is that they are going to be releasing these porcupines back into the wild.
Elena Passarello They're better.
Luke Burbank They're all better. They got the quills back. They got their noses unstuck. They've taken them back out and they're going to release them back out into the wild out there near Lake Tahoe.
Elena Passarello So when that little cat carrier door opens, that P3 is just going to be like (imitates porcupine groans).
Luke Burbank The fact, Elena, that you can do a very spot on porcupine impression. That is actually the best news that I've heard all week. All right. Let's welcome our first guest on over to the show. She's an Emmy nominated actor and comedian, was cast member on Saturday Night Live for six seasons where she was known for her characters like Sally O'Malley and Mary Katherine Gallagher, among others. She also starred in lots of films, including Superstar, Wet Hot American Summer, and Other People, for which she won an Independent Spirit Award. And this week, she's releasing a new, deeply personal and funny memoir titled Hello Molly. And we are so excited to have her joining us from her front porch down in the greater Los Angeles, California, area. Molly Shannon, welcome to Live Wire.
Molly Shannon Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Luke Burbank We are such fans and so glad that this worked out. This book is so fascinating and blunt, like in the best way. Like it just feels so honest. I was curious, is it a different muscle? I mean, because you write a lot of comedy and have written a lot of stuff comedically. But this is a book-book.
Molly Shannon Yeah. It's a real different muscle. It's very different. And you really can't know what it is until you just start doing it. There's no way. And as much as you might think, Oh, I know where this book is going to go once you're really into it, it's like, oh, you know, you really learned a lot about what you want to reveal and don't want to reveal and how to do it. And it's really hard. I have so much respect for people write books. It's it's one of the hardest things I've done. I think it's hard.
Luke Burbank Yeah. The prologue of this book describes something that you in the book, right, changed your life forever. This was the car accident where you lost your mother and your sister and your cousin and your dad was at the wheel. I think what's surprising to folks who've who've had a chance to read the book is that you did have such a kind of strong relationship and close relationship with your dad after this, because there could have been a universe in which you resented him or even the people in your family, you know, resented him because he was at the wheel when this happened. He had been drinking previously in the day. It's a little unclear if that contributed or not. Was that-did you ever have to make a conscious choice as a kid? I'm going to, like, be close to my dad despite this?
Molly Shannon No, it was never like that. I never blamed him for that. I thought of it as a car accident, and he never wavered from his story to his death. When-when we did talk about it, he was like it was an all day party into night. And he had taken a nap. And then they left later at night, like whatever, nine at night. And he asked my mom to drive and she was like, No, you're fine, you can drive. A group of people walked him out to the car to say goodbye. You know, it was it was also a different time. It's 1969. We have a lot more awareness now about drinking and driving. We have Mothers Against Drunk Driving. We have "friends don't let friends drive drunk." It was a different time, too. I'm not saying that's okay, but when I was doing research for the book, I finally, for the first time in my life, was like, You know what? I'm going to Google where my cousin's graduation party was and where the site of the accident was. And I just don't know why. I never wanted to think about that before, but I did it like a few months ago and I was like, Oh my God. I had no idea that he had driven for 90 minutes before they crashed. So we were 18 minutes from home. So that was really like, you know, it was I'm not defending his behavior. I don't like getting into a debate about it all. But but anyhow, I chose to believe my father and his version of events. So it wasn't like I need to decide to forgive him. It was not like that growing up. No, I did not blame him.
Luke Burbank Yeah. And you make it very clear in the book that your dad's sort of belief in you and the way he found you to be so funny and entertaining and charming really gave you the confidence to have the career that you've had, which I want to talk about right after we take this quick break. This is Live Wire Radio. We're talking to Molly Shannon. She's got a new memoir out. Hello, Molly. We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be back in just a moment. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We're talking to Molly Shannon from her front porch in Los Angeles about her new memoir, Hello, Molly. There is a lot in the book about your father, both the circumstances of your early life where your mom and sister and cousin passed away, but also just growing up kind of with a single dad doing his best. And then into your entertainment career where he was very, very into you being on SNL and things like that. I want to talk about your SNL audition. That's like the stuff of legend in the comedy world, like the SNL audition moment. What happened for you? Like, well, how did your go?
Molly Shannon I couldn't believe that I was even asked to audition. I had been wanting to get on the show five years before that, and Lorne Michaels was looking at tapes. And I was doing comedy in L.A. I was doing, I had a comedy group, we called ourselves the Lumber Company. And so I heard Lorne was looking for women on the show, and I made a five minute reel. I used all my waitressing money to make this tape, and I had an editor and I wasn't proud of it, but I found out that I was passed over and he wasn't going to bring me to New York to audition. I was on a payphone on the on the corner of Fountain and Vine in Hollywood, near my apartment across in El Pollo Loco when I found out he was going to bring me in, I cried.
Luke Burbank Nobody wants to get that news in front of an El Pollo Loco.
Elena Passarello No, no.
Molly Shannon Exactly, no, not at all. So then I just figured, whatever. You know what? If they ever come back again, I'm going to be ready. And they did come back five years later, and I was much more ready. I had an arsenal of characters. I had really developed these characters in a stage show, you know, Sally O'Malley, Mary Katherine. I knew they worked. I was doing them in front of an audience, so I was much more ready. So they came back again and they go, We want another tape. And I was like, No, no, no, no, you can't have a tape. You got to come see my live show. Or otherwise I'm not going to audition because I felt like a tape would be too easy for them to say no. So. So they were like, okay, so Marci Klein flew out to see my stage show. Loved it. The show went so well, and she was like, You're coming to New York to audition. So that was the setup. And then we all got flown, a bunch of women, we flew on the same flights.
Elena Passarello Oh, no.
Molly Shannon And yeah, it was kind of like-and then they put you up at a stand up club. I think we're at Standup New York the night of the audition, and you get 5 minutes of time and you get to do five characters and they had everybody backstage together. And Marci Klein was so helpful. She was a producer. So I had called and asked her before my audition. I was like, Can I bring my comedy partner fly him into? And she was like, Sure we can-yeah, you can fly him in. And I was like, Can I bring wigs? And she was like, Yeah, bring wings. I was just like, Okay. And the audience that's in the club thinks they're going to see stand up. So they're not an easy audience to make laugh. They're really like, What is this character? They were difficult. And so I remember starting the first character. I forget what character it was, but I remember kind of bombing and I was like, Oh God, I don't know if this is going well. And I look out into the audience and I see Lorne Michaels and Chris Farley was there. Oh my god, Chris Farley. And I was just happy that I'd gotten to that point in my life. I was very grateful just being from Cleveland, not knowing anybody in town. I was like, I can't believe I even made it this far. Then when I went back to L.A., people were like, I heard you're going to get SNL. And I was like, Really? I haven't heard anything. And then finally, one night, my manager showed up at my door, my manager, Steven Levy. At night, he came knocking on my door in Hollywood, smelling of like cigarettes and In-N-Out burgers. And I was like, What? Why are you here? And he's like, You got Saturday Night Live. So that was it, yeah.
Luke Burbank I was so surprised when I was reading that you were actually only on SNL for six seasons because you had so many iconic characters. I would have guessed it was-I'm sure you felt every one of those six seasons while you were performing, but like, you know, you really had success with the characters that you created. Which brings me, of course, to Mary Katherine Gallagher. I remember the Monday after Mary Katherine Gallagher debuted on SNL, and I remember in L.A. you might have had the same experience. I remember going to school and we were all doing Mary Katherine Gallagher impressions. We were putting our fingers in armpits. We were saying, "superstar." We were like, boys, girls. It was a phenomenon.
Molly Shannon Oh, my God. Thank you.
Elena Passarello Same as Sally O'Malley. Every time you forgot something, you go, Ah, I'm 50. Like every time you lost your car, you failed a test.
Molly Shannon Thank you. That's so sweet. And it was really hard to get that character on, too, actually.
Luke Burbank Mary Katherine or Sally O'Malley?
Molly Shannon Mary Katherine. Because actually I was doing that character, my stage show, and there was a woman who had called herself a talent scout for SNL who wasn't officially. She was much more into boys and girls. And I remember thinking that she's missing other girls like, why aren't you like, what? And then. Marci Klein ended up really taking over as a talent scout, which was much better news for me because I was like, Oh good. Get this other person out of the picture. She's not helping me. And when that other woman got wind that I was being asked to audition for SNL, she goes, I just have one bit of advice for you. Don't ever do that character, Mary Katherine Gallagher, because you'll never get hired.
Luke Burbank Oh, my God,.
Molly Shannon They'll hate that little, you know, character. So I ended up not doing Mary Katherine Gallagher for my audition. Isn't that interesting? So when I got onto the show, I put the character in the read through. Steve Cochran helped me write my first Mary Katherine Gallagher, and he said, well, tell me exactly what you do on your show, and maybe we can write that up. But I was like, okay. So we typed up our first sketch. I go, Well, I come on and I go like this. I trip on a chair. So we just wrote that up together. Then I put it in the read through. Anyhow, Lorne did really like it and he was like, You know what? I like that Mary Katherine Gallagher. Let's wait till next week when Gabriel Byrne comes. We'll make him the priest. But what happened was for the dress rehearsal before the live show at 8:00, the stuff that they don't really believe in is usually at the bottom stuff that's going to get cut and won't make it to the live show. And so Mary Katherine was at the very bottom of the dress schedule and I was like, Oh no, I think they're not understanding what this is going to be. And I knew because I'd done it for years on my stage, so I knew it could destroy, you know, and I was like, I don't think they're understanding what this is going to be physically. So I was like, I felt kind of mad. I was like, I'm gonna have to really show them, and I'm going to have to blow the roof off the house. So I went crazy during that dress rehearsal. And then basically between the dress show and air, the entire cast goes into Lorne Michael's office. It's like 11:10 at night. It's like 20 minutes, 15 minutes before the live show. It's like 11:15. And sometimes you're still in in your cupcake costume or whatever, for the cupcake sketch that gets cut. And I'm looking and I'm looking and Mary Katherine Gallagher got moved from the bottom of the show to the top and I was like, Yes!
Luke Burbank Superstar.
Molly Shannon Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just like the greatest. And Jim Brewer said that he'd never heard a response like that before. He said you could hear like a roar from the audience when it was done, like a roar echoing through. And it was a great lesson for me because I really wrote for myself from my heart. I wrote it in a character that's an exaggerated version of kind of how I felt when I was little, and I couldn't believe people related to it so much. I was like, Wow. So the day after it aired, people were like, That reminds me of my sister and my, my, my cousin. Oh, my God. And people started coming up to me in the streets and stuff.
Luke Burbank We are talking to Molly Shannon here on Live Wire. She's got a new memoir out called Hello, Molly. I feel like we could talk for hours and hours about all of the different amazing characters that you've created in different things. One that comes to my mind right now because I just got done watching it is your character on The White Lotus, which is like just one of the more, maybe unintentionally or intentionally cruel characters I've seen in a long time. You seem so kind and big hearted, especially in reading this memoir. Like, how do you connect with like a character, like the kind of sort of stepmom from hell, like you did in the White Lotus?
Molly Shannon Well, that was a character, I think I've known people like that who are just very in their own world. She lives in her own world. She's always had money. Mike White really helped me because he's a really good director. So he was like, I want it really natural. You don't have to act like a rich lady. You don't have to be like "rrrrh, I'd like some", you know. So he's like, she's always had money, you know, she just she doesn't even understand why somebody would want to work. She's like, why would you-why would you want to get a job? That makes no sense. You know, like, she's just like, you should be on boards and committees and then you're asking yourself for money. She's just so self centered. So it was a really fun character to play.
Luke Burbank Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting take on it too, which is that a lot of people who maybe are very wealthy wouldn't think of themselves as being as corrosive as they are. It doesn't even occur to them the impact they're having on other people, like the impact your character's having on her new daughter in law.
Molly Shannon Yeah, exactly. She just doesn't think about that. She's thinking about her son and herself, and she wants her son to be happy, and she needs to set her straight and go, Honey, here's what you need to do. You got to make my boy happy. And don't complicate it for yourself. Here's what my boy needs. So it's old fashioned. And but these are her values. This is what she thinks. And I never want to make fun of that point of view. There are people that actually think that way, you know what I mean? And I tried to really understand how this woman thinks.
Elena Passarello Mm hmm.
Luke Burbank We are running short on time here, but a couple of more questions. In the book you write about the experience of realizing that your dad is gay and eventually him sort of confirming that for you. And you write in the book that when you realized this, your heart grew about a thousand sizes. I'm curious why that was your reaction?
Molly Shannon I guess because I felt I didn't know that, so it made the drinking make more sense, the anger. I think if you can't be who you're meant to be, you know, be with who you want to be. Follow your heart's desires, your-what you're passionate about, who you're attracted to. That's such a hard life. And I don't think that's good for anyone. And I think straight people have to defend gay people to stand up for them and stick-to stick up for them and not allow them to be bullied. And and I just felt compassion that he was born maybe a generation or two too early. He was born in 1926, and maybe it wasn't an option to come out. He was scared. He's scared he'll be made fun of. Or maybe his family would abandon him. Mr. O'Neill, his friend he had to defend in grade school. Mr. O'Neill was called a sissy and he was defending Mr. O'Neill. So he was like, I don't want to act like that. I got to, you know, act macho or whatever. So I felt compassion for him and love because I cared about my father and I admired him and I knew what a good person he was.
Luke Burbank There are some great pictures of the two of you in this book, which, like the words in this book, are really good. I want people to understand that. It's a great read, but from a photographic standpoint, it's actually really charming as well to just see you at different stages of life. And I mean, there's a moment where you're in your-your Catholic school uniform where you'd look like a 12 year old Mary Katherine Gallagher. Like a lot of stuff about your career really kind of makes sense from the photographs. I'm wondering if your life had gone differently, if that accident hadn't happened, do you think you would have still ended up in the career that you've ended up in? You write in the book that that event for you caused a sense of urgency. I'm wondering if you've ever thought about what a different version of your life would be if that wouldn't have happened to you.
Molly Shannon Yeah, that's interesting because I wanted to make people laugh. I want to please people entertain. And I think that that type of set back early gave me a resilience that made me make it in show business and a kind of bounceability. But, and then when you when you lose a parent, I lost my mom when I was four, you feel defective. You feel like there's something wrong with you. So it's a great, great start to go into show business because,
Luke Burbank You want to have as much insecurity as possible before anyone turns you down after an audition. You want to start with a baseline of self-loathing.
Molly Shannon Right, exactly. But it does, it does give you a drive and stuff. So, no, maybe maybe I wouldn't have, I don't know. Or if I had pursued it, I probably would have been a lot healthier. But now I have to say that I think the whole thing of feeling like you don't measure up and all that, it's so exhausting. And I think, you know, no matter what level you're at, people are still insecure and it's like, Oh my God, it's just an exhausting life. I don't like to think that way. I'm like, I don't want to live my life that way anymore.
Elena Passarello Yeah, it's super taxing.
Molly Shannon I think it's great to find work that you'd like to do and be passionate, and it's like life is so short and precious that now I like to just enjoy being in the arts, being creative and, you know, and enjoy that. Like, why do you two compare? Yeah, yeah.
Luke Burbank Well, thank you, Molly, for taking the time to talk to us. The book is Hello, Molly. It's a memoir from the great Molly Shannon here on Live Wire. Thanks, Molly.
Molly Shannon Bye, Luke. Bye, Elena. Thank you. Such a fun interview.
Luke Burbank Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco, and as a member of the OneWorld alliance. Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at AlaskaAir.com. Do you ever wish that you were more in the know about upcoming Live Wire guests or advance ticket sales for our live shows? Well, you can be if you sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of the inside live wire scoop delivered directly and conveniently to your inbox. Just click "Keep in Touch" over at LiveWireRadio.org and we will be sure to make sure you hear it all first. This is Live Wire. As we do each week, we asked our listeners a question since we've got a couple of multitalented, multi-hyphenate guests on the show this week, we wanted to ask about performing and maybe even sometimes going a little over the top. We ask the question, tell us about a time you went over the top. Elena, you've been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?
Elena Passarello I am seeing a plethora of good stories. So sit back. Relax. It's story time, ladies and germs. How about this one from Jessie? Jessie went over the top in this way. I used to think it was really neat to do gymnastic tricks when I was drinking. My best friend couldn't tolerate it any longer, so one night when I was showing off, and then proceeded to pass out while doing the splits, he left me there and went to bed. I was slumped over in the splits until I woke up the next morning and I could barely walk.
Luke Burbank The human body is capable of really surprising things when it's imbibed enough alcohol, I guess. Overnight in the splits position?
Elena Passarello Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how. My body always turns fetal, like anytime it falls asleep, it could be on an airplane. It could be drinking in the backyard. There's I always curl up into a little bitty ball.
Luke Burbank You go right back into the womb, basically.
Elena Passarello The splits, I would think my subconscious would just be like, get out of that position. But hey.
Luke Burbank I have a friend, a dear friend who, when she is, had a certain number of drinks, likes to start engaging in something she calls feats of strength is just figuring out who at this barbecue can I pick up and going around-getting consent-but just going around and trying to pick up as many people who are consenting to that happening. And it almost always ends with people lying on the lawn because the final feat of strength was too challenging.
Elena Passarello That reminds me of, remember when we had Barry Sonnenfeld on and he said he's challenged like half of the luminaries of cinema to leg wrestling and the only person who ever beat him was Kelly Ripa.
Luke Burbank The things you remember from this show, Elena. Great. All right. What's another time one of our listeners went over the top?
Elena Passarello Oh, I love this one from Meghan. Meghan says, For my friend's birthday, I woke her up with a parade by her house that included many of our friends who were in the marching band. Her neighbors did not love it, but she was very touched. I want that. I want a parade. I want a parade by my house at any time, including my death. My funeral could be a second line and that would be, I'd be so happy.
Luke Burbank We will honor your wishes.
Elena Passarello Thank you. I mean, I'd like to be alive so I could see it. Maybe I should Tom Sawyer it and just, like, be hiding behind them.
Luke Burbank Well, this is, I mean, a way to do it. My two friends, Robert and Robin, when they got married in Seattle at Pike Place Market. They had this really great Quaker ceremony. And then so we gathered together and kind of honored that moment. And then the reception was at this Mexican restaurant, like five blocks away, and none of us knew this was going to happen, but a pep band from like, I think the University of Washington or maybe it was a local high school just showed up. It was like maybe 12 or 15 people. And then they did they just kind of second lined us over to the restaurant. I'd never like, not growing up, you know, anywhere near New Orleans like this was a new experience for me, but it was one of the most fun five block walks of my life. People are like throwing flowers out of the windows and like, everyone's into it. Just this impromptu wedding parade.
Elena Passarello Yeah, that's a reason to get married right there. I don't even care who the guy is, like, if I could get a parade out of it. It's, it's so cool.
Luke Burbank Maybe at my next wedding I'll go for that. Okay. One more way that one of the listeners has gone over the top.
Elena Passarello Oh, I love this one from Cam. Cam says, One time my friend invited me to a brunch party in his huge backyard. He was always throwing big parties, so I wasn't surprised when he said there'd be 50 guests. I love to bake. He asked me to make my famous homemade bagels, so I spent all Friday and Saturday making eight dozen bagels for this epic brunch. But when I got there, there were only a few guests because he said 15, not 50.
Luke Burbank 1-5, not 5-0.
Elena Passarello Yeah, but it wasn't a total loss, Cam says. I had bagels in my freezer for weeks.
Luke Burbank Yeah, those will keep right?
Elena Passarello Yeah, guess so. I mean, no bagel ever lasts in my house longer than, like, 12 seconds.
Luke Burbank I feel like when I was a kid, maybe just because I didn't grow up having a lot of stuff that was sort of artisanal, bagels were these big kind of doughy things that came in a, you know, plastic bag from the grocery store? Now I just feel like the trend is they're, they're smaller, they're crustier, I mean, they're better, let's be honest. But my whole conception of a bagel and what is a good bagel now is like way different in adulthood than when I was a kid.
Elena Passarello I feel that way about bread in general. I don't think I was really taught what bread is supposed to taste like until I was like 30 years old.
Luke Burbank My complaint with bread when I was a kid was I was always the kid bringing my lunch to school, and somehow my sandwich was two heels. It was like the front and the back of the bread. Because I was, you know, there was seven kids, we were going through a lot of bread and I'd get the two heels and my mom would sometimes pack my lunch in the bag the bread came in.
Elena Passarello Oh, yeah.
Luke Burbank Never a great day. Well, thank you to everyone who sent in responses to our listener question. We got another one coming up at the end of this program related to next week. So stick around for that. In the meantime, you are tuned in to Live Wire Radio. I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. Our musical guest this week is a singer and songwriter who blurs the lines between punk, soul and rock. Drawing inspiration from the great traditions of South African protest music and the polyrhythms and tonalities of her native Tswana tribe. AfroPunk calls her performances an inspiring and spiritual experience. Her first studio album, The Life of Margaret Cornelius, was released earlier this year. Guitar Girl Magazine described it as mystical, soulful and sometimes haunting. Let's welcome to Tuelo to Live Wire.
Tuelo Thank you. Very glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Luke Burbank This might be geographically the the most remote of these interviews that we've done since the kind of new version of the show thanks to the pandemic. Where are you joining us from right now?
Tuelo I am in Johannesburg, South Africa. We're actually doing some recording. So very happy. Normally, geographically, I'm very far from my band. They're in South Africa and I'm in the U.S. so this is really cool.
Luke Burbank You have a really fascinating backstory. You grew up on a rural farm in South Africa. I'm curious what your musical life was like as a kid on that farm.
Tuelo My musical life, I mean, South Africans sing really well. So it's just like listening to people sing anywhere and everywhere really well in harmony. Like, you know, like sometimes I mean, South Africa. I'm like, oh my gosh, did everyone just join in and harmony? So I grew up with that. And then I come from also a traditional background, like even writing music. So there's a lot of my traditional polyrhythms that I grew up with. And South Africa is very diverse. I got to listen to a lot of things, but I think, like, where I really come from is that polyrhythmic sound and a lot of singing.
Luke Burbank You're part of the Tswana tribe.
Tuelo Yes, I am Tswana.
Luke Burbank But I've heard you say that you kind of think of the music of that tribe as being essentially rock and roll.
Tuelo Yes. The way I interpret it is before when I used to listen to, like, you know, rock music, I'd go, oh, my gosh, did they hear it from us? You know, I just.
Luke Burbank Were you, like hearing Bon Jovi or something out on the farm in South Africa thinking they might rip that off from my tribe?
Tuelo Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, to the point where like when you're listening to that, even Bon Jovi or you're listening to the Rolling Stones, it's just like, no, I know where that's from and I know where they got it from. They're just not saying so. I think I kind of grew up with that.
Luke Burbank I mean, were you even though you were living in, you know, in a somewhat remote part of the globe, were you still getting a lot of exposure to a lot of musical influences, some of which might be surprising to people? I mean, were you hearing New Kids on the Block, things like that?
Tuelo Not so much. So at some point, okay, we did hear some music, but South Africa, there was a point in South Africa where all of the music, as you hear it now, because of the Internet, it took so long for it to show up. When I got to the U.S., I really got to, you know, a library. I was in Connecticut at some point, and the library in this little town was so great. Like, there was so much music, music I had never heard before, the Nina Simone's and all of this music that I didn't, I actually didn't know "Feeling Good" was Nina Simone. I didn't know who that was. And so I just became obsessed. And I took everything from the library, and I listened to it and I was like, I think I was most exposed then. And I was like, Oh, I think I can do this, but let me not tell anyone, you know?
Luke Burbank Wow. Cause you moved from South Africa to the U.S. when you were about 17.
Tuelo Right.
Luke Burbank And lived in the U.S. and then performed with with some really notable performers, Paul Simon, Hugh Masekela, things like that. And then at some point, you decided to go back to South Africa for a period of time. What was that process like for you? Why did you decide to go back to South Africa at some point?
Tuelo So I moved very young and I was all by myself for a very long time. And I think deciding to come to South Africa was I'd already put out Saint Margaret, which was a single. And the EP then. And I just knew already that I needed to do this well. I needed also just grounding. I needed to feel some love, which, like when you were all by yourself. It just is so, so strange. So after a while, I think I lost confidence. Really. I got home and I, like, come from where the Kalahari Desert starts, actually. And so, like, in, like, my little desert town, I just got to meet, like, amazing guitarists, amazing drummer, amazing bassist, and which was great because, you know, for the longest time everyone was like, Oh, you're doing rock and like, you're the South African girl. How did you do that? Did you listen to Rolling Stones? And like when I got here, these guys are rock and rollers. And I was just like, exactly, exactly. I'm not the only one. So I usually come back a better, fuller human being. I don't know how to say it.
Luke Burbank We're talking to Tuelo right here on Live Wire. I'm Luke Burbank with Elena Passarello. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere because we're back with more, including a live musical performance. So stay with us. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We are talking to musical artist Tuelo about her new album, The Life of Margaret Cornelius. Now, I'm curious, is Margaret Cornelius, is that an alter ego of yours? Is that an amalgamation of a few different people? Who's Margaret Cornelius?
Tuelo So it's more of a spirit in which I wrote the record. I really wanted to embody and present my first full piece that really spoke of special women who are not seen in the world who was special to me, including my mother and sisters and aunts and women in my community. And I also wanted to tell the story of people who chose peace from trouble, from troubling times. And so I kind of wanted to to bring all of that in one. And Margaret Cornelius is basically Margaret is my mother. Cornelius is my father. And they are the most peaceful people I know. Like they always choose peace. And so I kind of wanted this record, even though it sounds morbid, I think that the message behind it is very peaceful. It's choosing peace constantly.
Luke Burbank Your parents were active in trying to change the apartheid policies in South Africa. It's interesting to hear you say your parents are the most peaceful people you know. I wonder what it's like for them and other South Africans who lived much of their life under that regime to be peaceful. I mean, is that something that is always going to live in the minds, in the hearts of the people who went through it?
Tuelo I think so. It's, you know, something that I don't think they they try to think about often. But when I try to talk of it, I think they just want to resist having to you know, there's not a space in South Africa that allows for people to actually go through that yet, I think. It will come later. But yeah, they, you know, they-they're not ready to even talk about it. I think it's also a cultural thing where, you know, you have to move on. You just have to keep it moving, do what you need to do and not also dwell on the pain that others have caused you.
Luke Burbank Is that, I mean, experience for you as well, is that woven into this record somewhere, sort of subtly?
Tuelo Absolutely. I mean, I'm going to kind of unpack this situation. And the story of trouble really in the record is what the whole record's about. So in my family and I think all of us want to talk about how, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago when there were tribal wars, before we were colonized, Botswana's decided we're not very, like we're not warring people. We'll poke you, but we won't, like we won't fight. We don't want to fight. We don't, we're not fighters. And so we ran away from the coast and other areas to move to the desert, to not be in war, you know, like not fight for territory. And so we chose to go where you least expect where no one wants to be, not even colonizers wanted to be in the desert. And so we got there and we got diamonds and gold and things and just like really, really amazing minerals and precious metals and that kind of thing. So the story is to say really that if you're in a time of trouble, you should go where it's least expected. You should, you know, you should go and find your desert and maybe you will find diamonds. So basically this is the whole record really.
Luke Burbank Well, that's a great setup for the song that we're about to hear, "Trouble." This is Tuelo, live from Johannesburg, South Africa, here on Live Wire. Take it away.
Tuelo (singing) Thought you were my friend. Thought you'd be the one I'd take a bullet for, like I'd make you fair. In this atmosphere, you take a side that you could be here, this side they save the crazy, draw out all the enemies. I don't want you, trouble. I don't need you, trouble. I've been making plans wiithout you letting go of all the memories. You don't want my trouble. Glad you made it clear. Never be surrounded by these crazy things, happy I am here. You almost drag me down to suffocate the demon now. Yeah, you could be here. This time we say the crazy, we drown out all the enemies. I don't want you, trouble. I don't need you, trouble. I will make a plan without you, letting go of all the memories. You don't want my trouble. I, I don't need you trouble. I've been making plans without you, letting go of all the memories. You don't want my trouble. Stay away from me, away from me. I've been making do for centuries, making do like you will never reach. You don't want my trouble. I don't need you, trouble.
Luke Burbank Tuelo and her band. Tuelo, thank you so much for for coming on Live Wire and playing for us.
Tuelo It's a pleasure. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Luke Burbank That was Tuelo right here on Live Wire. Her album, The Life of Margaret Cornelius, is available now. All right. Before we get out of here, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to acclaimed chef two time Top Chef finalist on Bravo Gregory Gourdet. We're going to talk about addiction and recovery and the restaurant industry and this amazing cookbook that he has out. And also how his Haitian heritage inspired his latest restaurant undertaking. We're also going to talk to Julian Saporiti about how he transformed his doctoral research on Asian-American history into concerts and albums and films all under the name No-No Boy, its really incredible multi-media history project he's been doing. We're also going to be looking to get your answers to our listener question, which is what this week, Elena?
Elena Passarello What is your surprising cooking hack?
Luke Burbank Mm hmm.
Elena Passarello Quesadilla in the toaster.
Luke Burbank I just like to throw a slice of American cheese just right on a cracker. Is that a cooking hack?
Elena Passarello That's a cooking snack.
Luke Burbank Okay, that's different. Yeah. All right. If you have a cooking hack that you would like to share with us, you can let us know by way of social media. We are @LiveWireRadio just about everywhere where social media is happening. All right. That is going to do it for this week's episode of the show. Huge thanks to our guests, Molly Shannon and to Tuelo. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Special thanks this week to Kevin Wenzel.
Elena Passarello Laura Haden is our executive producer. Heather De Michele is our executive director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Our assistant editor is Tré Hester. Our marketing manager is Paige Thomas and our production fellow is Tanvi Kumar. A. Walker Spring composes our music. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer.
Luke Burbank Additional funding provided by the Regional Arts and Culture Council and the James F and Marion L Miller Foundation. Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank member Jenny Reid Stout of Tualatin, Oregon for more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to LiveWireRadio.org. I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
PRX.
