Episode 579

with Hari Kondabolu and Margo Cilker

Comedian Hari Kondabolu (Snack vs. Chef) unpacks his most popular tweets and dives into why Bert and Ernie need couples' therapy; singer-songwriter Margo Cilker explains why she might have cow poop on her sleeve at any given time backstage, before performing "Tehachapi" from her new album Pohorylle; and host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello get nostalgic for some snacks from the past.

Hari Kondabolu

Comedian

As one of Live Wire's very favorite guests, comedian Hari Kondabolu might be the smartest person you laugh at this year. Before becoming a regular on public radio and appearing on NPR's Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me and Midday on WNYC, Hari earned a Masters in Human Rights from the London School of Economics and worked as an immigrant rights organizer in Seattle. Because of his educational background, his comedy is a complex blend of social commentary, honest personal experience, and trenchant political wit. He has released two comedy albums and has performed on Conan, Jimmy Kimmel Live, and The Late Show with David Letterman among others. . His 2018 Netflix special, Warn Your Relatives, made many "Best of" lists, and his critically-acclaimed documentary, The Problem with Apu, has been making waves since 2017. He also co-hosts the podcast The Untitled Kondabolu Brothers Podcast with his younger brother. Website • Twitter • Instagram

Margo Cilker

Musician

Margo Cilker is a singer-songwriter from Eastern Oregon who made NPR’s list of “11 Oregon Artists to Watch in 2021.” For the last six years, she has toured internationally, all across the US, and remains a staple on the independent festival circuit. Her debut record Pohorylle, which came out in fall 2021 under the Portland label Fluff and Gravy, traverses the geography of Cilker’s memories—a touring musician’s tapestry of dive bars and breathtaking natural beauty. Her music, which has been compared to that of Lucinda Williams, Townes Van Zandt, and Gillian Welch, deftly explores the complex, often-shifting terrain where love and loss meet. Website • Twitter • Instagram

• Full Transcript

  Luke Burbank: Hey there, Elena.

  Elena Passarello: Hey, Luke. How's it going?

  Luke Burbank: It's going well. Hey, are you ready to play a little "Station Location Identification Examination"?

  Elena Passarello: Let's do it.

  Luke Burbank: This is where I quiz Elena about a place in the country where Live Wire is on the radio. She's got to guess where I'm talking about. I think you're going to get this one. This place is famous for its sweet onions. In fact, the sweet onions from this location are the official vegetable of the state that it's in.

  Elena Passarello: I believe that would be my home state of Georgia. And Vidalia, Georgia.

  Luke Burbank: Spoken like a Georgian who knows nothing about the onion industry in Washington State.

  Elena Passarello: Is it not Vidalia, Georgia?

  Luke Burbank: It's not Vidalia, Georgia. It's got a back to back name. It's often referred to as "the town so nice they named it twice." That name actually comes from a Native American term of Sahaptin origin. It translates to place of many waters due to the lakes and rivers and streams in the area. The blank-blank sweet onion.

  Elena Passarello: I guess it's Walla Walla.

  Luke Burbank: That's right. It's the Walla Walla Sweet onion where we're on the radio on KWWS Walla Walla. I see you looking at your computer Elena furiously trying to find out.

  Elena Passarello: It says that Vidalia is the Sweet Onion City. So I guess it's just there's so far apart, they. They're not competing with each other.

  Luke Burbank: Or maybe the listeners will email us in this week, and by next week we'll have a firm answer on which town is the real sweet onion capital of the United States. So shout out to everyone listening. On KWWS. All right. You ready to do the show?

  Elena Passarello: Let's do it.

  Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.

  Elena Passarello: From PRX. It's LIVE WIRE! This week, comedian Hari Kondabolu.

  Hari Kondabolu: Leave him Ernie, leave him. Like, what are you doing? You have two different beds. Like, this isn't the fifties. Like, what's going on, Ernie? Why stay with Bert?

  Elena Passarello: With music from Margo Cilker.

  Margo Cilker: Coming back into urban settings for shows. Like, sometimes I'll have, like, cow poop on my shirt sleeve or something like that.

  Elena Passarello: And our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer Elena Passarello, and now the host of Live Wire: Luke Burbank.

  Luke Burbank: Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks to everyone tuning in from all over the country, including the True Sweet Onion Capitol (Hey, man!) of United States, Walla Walla, Washington. Speaking of delicious treats, we got a great show for you this week. We asked listeners a question in honor of our friend Hari Kondabolu, hosting this Snack Show on Netflix, we asked "What snack takes you back?" And we're going to hear those responses coming up in just a few minutes. First, though, it's time for the best news we heard all week. This is our a little reminder at the top of the show that there is good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what is the best news that you heard all week?

  Elena Passarello: Well, I almost didn't make it to recording today because I was crying so hard over this best news.

  Luke Burbank: Wow! It sounds like the most emotional news you heard all week.

  Elena Passarello: It's just a delight and it involves something I love and something I know you love. Books and Tik Tok.

  Luke Burbank: Sadly, Tik Tok more than books these days because my brain is shrinking.

  Elena Passarello: Well, don't worry, because book tok has your back, especially in terms of Lloyd Devereux Richards. He is a retired law clerk who always wrote in his spare time he wrote suspense novels, thrillers up in his attic in Montpelier, Vermont. And it took him 14 years to finish his first novel, The Stone Maidens, which is a murder thriller. And it came out 11 years ago in 2012 before there was Tik Tok. It is important to note because the sales were all right. But now, 11 years later, as I tell you, this Stone Maidens is the number 15 best seller on Amazon. Well, beating Stephen King is beating Prince Harry. There's thousands of new sales ratings and reviews, and they've all happened in the past two weeks. The reason for this, by the way, I looked up my book, which also came out in 2012 on Amazon while I was researching the story. And while The Stone Maidens is number 15, my book from 2012 is 1,285,331. So that's the worst news I've heard this week

  Luke Burbank: Wait, is this is this Animals Strike Curious Poses or Let Me Clear My Throat?

  Elena Passarello: Let Me Clear My Throat. It's the first one.

  Luke Burbank: Vermont, people. Let's get that up to a half million- Elena's book is Let Me Clear My Throat.

  Elena Passarello: Well, it doesn't matter what happens. I bet I will not beat Lloyd Devereux Richards, especially in terms of heartstring tugging, because the whole reason that this happened was his daughter, his adult daughter, Marguerite, just was thinking fondly about all of these evenings and weekends where she saw her dad trudging up to his attic and working on his book and how proud she was of him, of going the distance and finishing the novel. So she made a Tik Tok account for Stone Maidens on February 7th, and the Tik Tok is like 17 seconds long. And it's just these images of him in his attic working and walking around. And the text of the Tik Tok is my dad spent 14 years writing a book. He worked full time and his kids came first, but he made time for his book. He's so happy, even though his sales aren't great. I'd love for him to get more sales. He doesn't even know what Tik Tok is.

  Luke Burbank: Wow.

  Elena Passarello: So Book Tok, which is the book arm of Tik Tok, is a very mighty force. Take it from me, if I was on book tok, my book would not be the 1.2 million book on Amazon. I'll tell you that much. Within 24 hours, that Tik Tok had received like 4 million views and then 15 million views. Everybody was putting up all these comments like, "I can't wait to read this book." "I'm so excited." "I've just left an Amazon review." "I've just left a Goodreads review." And so then Marguerite posted another video of her father again learning what Tik Tok was by watching this video and seeing just these hundreds of accolades and hearts and stuff. Scroll by. He bursts into tears. She bursts into tears, and the last thing he says is, "okay, now I need a nap." Spoken like a true author.

  Speaker 5: Wow.

  Luke Burbank: This is the new best way to publicize anything.

  Elena Passarello: Also, my mother probably listening to this and she's going to put this in the box of reason number 7 billion why you should have had kids, Elena.

  Luke Burbank: Just thinking of it for them to make you Tik Tok famous and move more copies of your book. The best news that I saw this week involved the story of Flaco, the Owl. Flaco is a Eurasian eagle owl. Now you know all about birds, Elena. You also write for Audubon Magazine. So I'm not sure if you've been following the case of Flaco, but the bad news that happened was that the Central Park Zoo in New York had some vandalism go on where somebody cut basically like an enclosure open. And that happened to be where Flaco, the owl, was living. And now Flaco has been at the Central Park Zoo since he was like under a year old. So pretty much everything Flaco knows about existing in the world has been in captivity. By the way, I have to say Flaco, like I live in Baltimore and we're talking about the quarterback, Joe Flacco.

  Elena Passarello: Flacco. That's right. Go Joe!

  Luke Burbank: Really have that coming through here (Come on, Baltimore.) So, so Flaco has been like in Central Park, living in the trees and they've been following Flaco, but they can't seem to catch him. He's fairly elusive. And the concern there is that Flaco doesn't really know how to survive in the wild because Flaco is never lived out there on his own. And and so he was just kind of like Flaco, by the way, means like skinny in Spanish. And he was getting very close to achieving that goal. His first couple of weeks in the wild. He didn't know how to. Hunt, and he was like flew up to a shopping mall somewhere in Manhattan. Firefighters tried to catch him. That was unsuccessful. But something really incredible recently happened, Elena. And as a bird enthusiast, you'll appreciate this. Flaco started vomiting the bones and fur of rats. Flaco has been apparently successfully hunting in Central Park.

  Elena Passarello: So they can't catch him. But they can catch his pellets. His barf Pellets.

  Luke Burbank: That's right, and they've been analyzing what's coming out of Flaco. And it appears that Flaco has figured out how to hunt the, let's just say, extremely large population of rats.

  Luke Burbank: In Central Park. And because of this, they have decided that Flaco is now just allowed to live in Central Park.

  Elena Passarello: Oh, my God.

  Luke Burbank: Because Flaco has figured it out, how to, how to hunt and how to keep feeding himself. So the news this week from the zoo is we're going to leave Flaco alone. We've we've basically released him into the wilds of Central Park, where by the way, I will actually be this week. So I'll be doing my traditional little jog in Central Park and I'm going to keep an eye out for Flaco.

  Elena Passarello: Are they going to change his name if he keeps feeding himself so well to Gordo?

  Luke Burbank: We're all hoping that Flaco can get to Gordo status out there and Lord knows it's a win win because it'll be reducing the rat population in Central Park. So Flaco, thriving in Central Park is the best news that I heard this week. Hey, let's welcome our first guest on over to the show. He's performed on CONAN, Jimmy Kimmel Live and The Late Show with David Letterman. Maybe more impressively to you know, our our public radio listeners is that he's also a panelist on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. He also made the documentary The Problem with Apu, which led to actual casting changes at The Simpsons. These days, he's also the co-host, along with Megan Stalter of the new Netflix hit series Snack versus Chef, which he's going to tell us all about when we bring them on the air. This is Hari Kondabolu right here on Live Wire. Hari. Welcome back to Live Wire.

  Hari Kondabolu: Thank you, Luke. It's a pleasure to be back.

  Luke Burbank: Can you please explain for those who haven't seen it and by the way, it's a small number of people in America. Based on the rankings, what is the premise of Snack versus Chef?

  Hari Kondabolu: There's a series of chefs, a series of chefs. There are chefs. There's not a series of them. There are just chefs that are there.

  Luke Burbank: That calls to mind a very dark outcome for the chefs that are eliminated. No one's seen Jason for a while.

  Hari Kondabolu: There are different rounds, and chefs in groups of three compete to recreate a very famous snack like a Ho-Ho or an Oreo cookie. But they only have what's available in that kitchen and sound like an industrial kitchen that you would have. So whatever you have, let's see how close you can get and you're not given the recipe. It's intuition, right? And then the next round is you take an element of what's distinct about that, that first snack and you use that element and what you create on your own. So, for example, the the first episode is about the flaming hot Cheeto and what's a Cheeto? It's a high end show. Okay. This NPR audience is all like, I would never watch anything like that. It's Downton Abbey or nothing. That's it. So the Cheeto, when you when it ends up on your after you eat it, there's like stuff on your hand that's referred to as Cheadle.

  Luke Burbank: I will say.

  Hari Kondabolu: The actor, Don. They cut that joke out of the show. I was very upset. I thought it was funny. Yeah.

  Luke Burbank: As I. I consider myself a friend of yours. Certainly an admirer of your work. I've watched the show with great interest. I loved the just the kind of Cheeto residue on the competitors hands. As the show unfolded, I felt like that was good continuity. I also was constantly thinking, What did Hari say that they took out?

  Hari Kondabolu: Oh.

  Luke Burbank: I felt like I could hear fragments of things that I knew. You said that got you know, they only included so much of it.

  Hari Kondabolu: That Don Cheadle joke was certainly in it. And I said, there should be a graphic that shows Don Cheadle as a Cheeto. And they didn't do it. I'm like, I'm like, You're getting it. I'm not paid as a writer. I'm giving you free joke advice here. But ultimately, the thing is, the show's done really well, but amongst children, because there's a kids Netflix, it was number one for most of this past week. So I'm like the new Raffi. I'm writing mango phone as we speak.

  Luke Burbank: Are you? I want to know what your sort of like snacking resume is. How did you get selected for being one of the hosts of this show?

  Hari Kondabolu: You know, it's interesting because I was surprised why that I was selected, because I don't know if people are familiar with my standup comedy. Half the people don't like it. Right. And half the people think it's really good. Right. And that's why I'm good at comedy, right? Because I say something interesting. But what that not that doesn't make me good at is making money and and being accessible to all people. Right. So I was confused. Like did Hassan and Aziz say no, like, why am I getting this gig? And then I'm like, No, they wouldn't even be offered it or whatever. Okay, So, so I'm like, This is weird. And then I started thinking about the jokes I've told. I'm like, I've made jokes about chocolate, white chocolate, Belgian chocolate, mangoes, Twizzlers, Skittles, Starburst, Tom Kazoo, pizza, like it's gluttony. I'm not known just for my hard hitting political humor. I'm known for gluttony.

  Luke Burbank: They were like, What's the word cloud next to this comedian? And it was like a lot of snack references.

  Hari Kondabolu: I mean, in my last Netflix special, there's like 5 minutes dedicated to mangoes. Just mangoes.

  Elena Passarello: Yeah, that's great.

  Hari Kondabolu: ...yeah.

  Luke Burbank: And that's a very solid part of that act, by the way.

  Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  Luke Burbank: We have to take a very quick break here on Live Wire. We're talking to Hari Kondabolu, the comedian and filmmaker, and also now one of the hosts of Snack versus Chef on Netflix number one show among impressionable young children. Stay with us. More Live Wire in just a moment. Hey, welcome back to Live Wire from PRX coming to you this week from Revolution Hall right here in Portland, Oregon. I'm Luke Burbank. Here with Elena Passarello, we're talking to Hari Kondabolu, one of the hosts of the new Netflix hit Snack versus Chef. Now, you have had great success in your career. You've. You've been on a number of late night shows. You made this amazing documentary. The problem with Apu is being a Netflix host, a different level of awareness. Are people noticing you in the airport in a way they didn't previously?

  Hari Kondabolu: No, not at all, actually. If I was a talking flaming hot Cheeto, they probably like. That's the that's the thing from the show. But no, but at the same time I haven't like because, you know, I've been on the road and stuff, so I haven't picked my kid up from daycare since the show came out. So maybe when I pick my kid up at school, the other kids will be like, Oh my God.

  Hari Kondabolu: It's the new Rafi. New Rafi is your dad.

  Luke Burbank: You were telling me backstage that you suspect your kid might be the cool kid at school.

  Hari Kondabolu: Yeah. I'm like, because the other parents tell me and my partner, like, Oh, like so-and-so always talks about your son is always saying your son did this or that. And I'm like, Oh, that's cool. And the thing is, my kid never talks about the other kids ever... And doesn't even doesn't even know most of their names, has very little interest. And I'm like, that's cool kid behavior. Like, yeah, you don't care about their lives. You have no interest in spending time with them outside of the school. And it's like part of me feels really good. And the other part of me is like, Oh my God, my kid would bully me. Oh my God, Oh my God, What am I raising right now? Like, because the thing I really wanted was like a brilliant student athlete that is a friend of the nerds. I wanted that kind of like that. That figure that would unite the community. Yes, right. You might say, why don't you want your kid to be a nerd as well? Like like you are? And I'm like, no, because, you know, every parent wants their kids lives to be better than theirs were. And I think that has to come with with being good at athletics as well as school. And I want this kid to be a superhero. I'm not I don't want to put too much pressure on the kid, but like, it's just that the genetics line up like this should be a slam dunk, which I hope he does much of. And but yeah, I really want if my kid's a bully would break my heart like it's like, what are you doing? Like, if he's a bully or Republican, that's redundant. I'm sorry. I said I want.

  Luke Burbank: To throw him a bone every once in a while.

  Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, I know. Public radio's nonpartisan, wink wink.

  Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire Radio, by the way. Luke Burbank. Here with Elena Passarello, we're talking to Hari Kondabolu. You're back out touring and doing comedy on the road. I noticed that you did some shows in Seattle that you did not charge anything for because you said you were working out new material.

  Hari Kondabolu: I was. I charge $7 plus fees.

  Luke Burbank: Oh, okay. I was wondering I think I misread that because I thought you were saying it was it was there was no charge for those shows where you were developing new material.

  Elena Passarello: Maybe you just walked in and you didn't pay any of them.

  Luke Burbank: I did.

  Elena Passarello: Yeah.

  Hari Kondabolu: I mean, look, I do new material nights where it's like an hour of new material, and I just kind of, like, struggle through the hour. So really, I do owe them money, like I tell them, like, you're probably like Hari Kondabolu in Seattle for $7. How is this possible? After you leave the show, you'll be like, This man owes me $2.

  Hari Kondabolu: I mean.

  Hari Kondabolu: I've used the Northwest this way, but especially Seattle. I've used it as an incubator for jokes. I try out stuff I would never use for crowds that pay more than $7. I feel like these crowds are forgiving. They're just happy that like, Oh, somebody is doing a thing. Yeah. I'm not saying this is not a first tier city. Portland's a second tier city. I mean, I know this all. Shut up, you know. You like being second tier. Don't even give me that. As soon as everybody started moving here, you complain and now you're booing. Oh, but we are for No, you are a second tier city and you will love it.

  Luke Burbank: The beauty part is we can also remove all of the booing. So like we can sum that right out, it'll sound like this audience was in complete agreement. How do you, when you're doing one of these shows where you're kind of working it out, how do you other than just laughter, how do you have a sense like this thing has potential to be a good joke and this thing, when do you know to give up on something that you've been trying and it's just kind of not working?

  Hari Kondabolu: I do four of the shows by the fourth, when you get a pretty good sense that the audience is completely wrong.

  Hari Kondabolu: No, I.

  Hari Kondabolu: Got four bad audiences in a row. What's wrong with this?

  Luke Burbank: It's like you date someone and all of their exes are complete psychos.

  Hari Kondabolu: Right, right, right. Wow.

  Luke Burbank: What are the chances you met eight complete psychos?

  Hari Kondabolu: Oh.

  Hari Kondabolu: You know, I mean, if you get a laugh, at least on a couple of the shows off the thing, it might indicate like, okay, so maybe the delivery was better at one of them and you screw up the delivery or there was a pause or timing or, you know, and when you do the shows outside of that little room, that 40 seat theater work out and, you know, you have to actually see, did what make the joke funny? Was it the actual joke or was it the enthusiasm and energy you had sharing something new? Because people get excited that like you're excited and they want to be in on the joke and they want to be you know, they're at comedy show, right? So but when you run out of that enthusiasm and all you have is like, like performing ability to make it feel like you're into it, does it still hold? And at that point, it's like how many husbands Elizabeth Taylor have like. Right. Right.

  Luke Burbank: Actually, you lose the another comedian doing that material.

  Hari Kondabolu: Richard Burton twice.

  Luke Burbank: Yeah. I saw that somebody had tweeted at you. They said Hari Kondabolu was the first comedian I watched who didn't speak in his parents accent when he was talking as them. (Mm hmm.) Was that a decision that you made early in your comedy career before you even started actually getting up on stage and telling jokes?

  Hari Kondabolu: No...I mean, I started on stage doing the accent because I was 17. It was 2000. Like the only brown people I'd seen in comedy, you know, like, other than Apu, you know, like, we're also doing the accent, you know, like if you were hired for a role as a South Asian person or Arab or anybody who was brown, like, the accent was it was always mandatory, right? Because you were either playing the comic relief in some way like an immigrant that just didn't get it or you're playing a terrorists or, you know, there's and those all required accents, right? So to me, I knew accents were where the money was right at 17. And I knew that's what people were going to laugh at. And then, you know, as I got older, as I got politicized and 9/11 obviously was a big part of that, like, okay, like, what am I doing? We have a limited number of representations and I'm like kind of just milking this funny voice that honestly, I didn't even do a good Indian accent even. I mean, I was doing an impression of Hank Azaria's impression of an Indian person. Do you? I mean, yeah, like I wasn't I don't have an ear for accents. Like, I don't my accent doesn't sound like my parents at all, you know? I mean, but when you grow up here in that's the dominant, like, comedic voice you're hearing from your community, you know, that's the go to and that's what like casting directors were looking for. Like I've been like I interviewed so many people for that problem with Apu documentary and so many of them like, have like either were from India, grew up in South Asian households, like knew like how to do a variety of Indian accents, Like there's no such thing as an Indian accent. That's like saying an American accent and you're doing a Southern accent. I'm like, Well, that is an American accent. Like, no people in rest of the country would strongly disagree that that is that is what an American accent is. So but they would want the Apu one they want that singsongy jokey kind of a voice. That is very unrealistic, though sometimes you do meet people that have that singsong thing and it's like, I know that's your actual voice, but stop it. Stop it is. Did you learn English from watching The Simpsons? How is that your voice right now?

  Luke Burbank: So you said it was was it post-9/11 for you when you said, okay, I'm going to eliminate that from my act, which feels like it must have kind of....

  Hari Kondabolu: Not immediately because I still needed to make people laugh. So it was a weird kind of split personality of an act because part of it was talking about like detentions and deportations of of immigrants and civil rights and injustice. And the other one is like, also, my parents sound like this because I still needed laughs. You know, the other stuff was just like a 19 year old at that point ranting about politics, which is the worst kind of ranting. Somebody who really isn't informed but is angry, you know? So then it's like, all right, I feel like that hit Portland closer to home than I intended. This is a thing I overheard at a coffee shop.

  Luke Burbank: Well, speaking of of Twitter, I'm curious what your. Because this started with something somebody had tweeted about your act. What's your as we record this? Yeah. What's your current relationship with that platform?

  Hari Kondabolu: I'm still on it, but I think it's time to jump ship and go to the other social media platforms that obviously are very ethical and are not owned by billionaires who don't care.

  Hari Kondabolu: All right.

  Hari Kondabolu: I mean, it's it's you know, I'm getting I'm getting off I use it still to at least post the shows, you know, where then I can make fun of the thing. But, yeah, I mean, I'm trying not to post anything on it that is anything close to content. And, you know, I mean, I just it was already kind of destroying the world. And then Elon Musk bought it and it's like, Oh no, like this is actually going to get worse.

  Luke Burbank: So you're on it for now, but you're using it mostly to promote your programs and your things that you're doing, but you're kind of not putting original content up. So you have.

  Hari Kondabolu: A every now and then I put a thought up and I feel guilty about it. And then I look at like, Oh, good thing nobody liked it.

  Luke Burbank: That's interesting because you have like you have what, like 150,000 followers on there. It's not.

  Hari Kondabolu: Good thing I invested so much energy in that particular social media platform as opposed to the gother ones. Yeah.

  Luke Burbank: I got off of Twitter. It was a very overly dramatic scene. Somebody texted me that, you know, they were letting Trump back on. And that for me had been kind of a bright line. And so I put on a sad song by the band Big Thief. I got a glass of wine and I deleted my account. It was a whole weird ritualized thing.

  Elena Passarello: You're like in a bubble bath

  Luke Burbank: It was and I'd like and I had like 15,000 followers and 12,000 were eggs. So, you know, you've got like again, it's a particularly if you work in the kind of business that you work in, it's it is a thing that's important to what you do.

  Hari Kondabolu: There is a level of fame that lets you cut it and you're fine. And I am not at that because I still need people to come to show, right? And I have a child to feed and I'm a touring performer. Like, I still need that thing. And, and that's the part that is unfortunate. I'm like, So please go to the other places so I can make you come to my shows from those places. It's like a weird kind of things. I don't want to be on it and to be honest. Like if anything, it stunted me creatively because your thoughts are not going into your notepads. You know, your thoughts are not going into a place that you're looking at. Again, what you're doing is you're putting your thoughts on this platform. And, you know, people say it's just a test of art. What ends up happening is you put it on there and you forget. You forget you ever wrote it because you're getting that little rush from people liking it and retweeting it and not from what it was meant to be, which is like, you're supposed to craft this, you're supposed to make this a thought that ends up going to a larger group of people as a joke. Instead, it becomes a premise machine that you throw away. You throw away these perfectly good ideas. To me, I'm hoping that Twitter ends up being the best thing for my writing because I feel like I've almost been handcuffed by it for years, and I think a lot of other comics probably feel the same way. They've been writing jokes that are like one line, and they're not they're not one liner comics. And I mean, that's not where they do their best work. And I feel like it certainly is. As you know, I go through old tweets sometimes and I'm like, This should have been a bit and I never wrote this. And now Trump's out of office and I can't use it.

  Luke Burbank: Well, you know, don't give up faith on that one. I mean, all right, easy. We're editing all of those boos out and, you know, and this is Live Wire from PRX Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We're talking to Hari Kondabolu. Now, Hari, this is what we've been talking about with the Twitter stuff is actually really related to what we want to talk about in the next part of our chat, which is that you are like a lot of people, conflicted about your relationship with Twitter and we're wondering if Twitter is going to exist years from now because of what we'll just call all of the things going on. (Right, right, right.) Or even it might just implode, who knows? So we wanted to try to sort of get some clarification from you about some of your tweets, some of your actual tweets. (Okay.) Before they're lost to history. (Okay.) When the platform goes down. So in front of me right here on this table, we've got an actual jar. This has five of your real tweets in it. We call this the jar of tweets.

  Hari Kondabolu: Oh, that's so great that the budget went up on this show.

  Luke Burbank: Well, some of us made the painful business decision to quit Twitter, Hari. You know, some of us aren't co-hosting the number one Netflix children's show currently. Here's the plan. We'd like you to please select a piece of paper telling your actual tweets on Elena is going to read the tweet. And then we would just love to get a little more context or expansion on the thought as you were saying. You know, maybe maybe these are great premises.

  Elena Passarello: I remember this one. This is a tweet that you made. Are you the Bert or the Ernie of your relationship?

  Hari Kondabolu: Clearly, me and my partner had just had a fight. Yes, that seems clear to me. And that is a passive aggressive response to that. I figured nobody would get that. I think I'm the Ernie, man.

  Luke Burbank: But so here's what I was looking at your feed and I was noticing that this is a sort of a theme. You've really developed some, it seems pretty specific theories about the personality types of Bert and Ernie.

  Hari Kondabolu: Yes.

  Luke Burbank: In relationships, what what what are the kind of broad strokes of that?

  Hari Kondabolu: Ernie is light hearted. Ernie just wants to make Bert happy. And sure, he's a bit of a trickster, right? He likes the little pranks and stuff, but he cares. And Bert is just like, Oh, I like oatmeal. You know what I mean? Like, he's just because Bert's eyebrows are always furrowed and he's always like, with Ernie and the whole time, like, leave him, Ernie, leave him. Like, what are you doing? You're not even you have two different beds. Like, this isn't the fifties. Like, what's going on, Ernie? Why stay with Bert? I mean, look, I don't know what's happening when the cameras aren't rolling, but there might be a reason. You know what I'm saying? Sure.

  Luke Burbank: So you feel that Bert is irretrievably broken? This isn't one of those opposites attract. It takes all kinds. You feel Bert is essentially toxic?

  Hari Kondabolu: I'm saying is that I haven't seen a single scene of Sesame Street, and I've watched a lot the last two years where he's been with a therapist I haven't seen or honestly, they both should be with a therapist. I don't understand why that, because I think that would mean a lot to children to see Bert and Ernie with therapists like it's okay to express your feelings, it's okay to talk through your issues with your undefined roommate, partner person.

  Luke Burbank: All right, Hari, please select another tweet from the jar of tweets.

  Elena Passarello: Okay. The fact that an apple was the temptation in the Garden of Eden and not a mango makes the whole thing suspect.

  Hari Kondabolu: Mango like mangoes or something, you give it all up for; an apple. Are you kidding? I mean, if it wasn't really an apple, I mean, it was have been like, Oh, for this. Really? This is fine. Yeah, I get we're in the northwest. I get it. But mangoes are the superior fruit. My God, they're so sensual.

  Luke Burbank: It is an event, I will tell you that. And maybe it has to do with the geography of where we are because there are so many apples. But a mango is a whole thing. It's like you sit down with it. You're. It's like delicious. It's a treat. An apple is like. I had a teacher at Daniel Bagley Elementary School, Mrs. Wharton, who would eat the entire apple and then eat the entire core while maintaining unbroken eye contact with me during detention. And it scarred me deeply.

  Hari Kondabolu: Was your teacher a horse?

  Luke Burbank: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. A lot of stuff is making more sense. This was a stable. The hay. The smell. All right. One more tweet, please, from the jar of tweets.

  Hari Kondabolu: Okay.

  Elena Passarello: All right. Apparently you also tweeted, My comedy can destroy relationships.

  Hari Kondabolu: Again, we had had a bad argument, but now I have I have heard from multiple people after shows and it's usually almost always the same combination of a woman of color and a white man. Right. And, you know, after like a show, the woman of color will come up to me and say, The last time I saw you perform, I brought the dude I was dating and he was a white guy and he hated your stand up. And that meant to me that he didn't believe most of what I believed in. And we broke up shortly after. I've heard that over the last 20 years, at least 40 times. And out every time. It feels good. The power. The power. And also, I can I can. Imagine, like, okay, I bet you your friends told you this wasn't a good person. Your family said it wasn't a good person, but it took me.

  Luke Burbank: Yeah. Not just the number one co-host of children's programing on Netflix, but also separating the wheat from the chaff from the stage. Hari Kondabolu, everyone. That was Hari Kondabolu right here on Live Wire. Snack versus Chef is available on Netflix, and Hari is also back out on tour. So catch him when he comes to a town near you. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco, and as a member of the OneWorld alliance. Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at Alaska Air dot com. Do you ever wish that you were more in the know about upcoming Live Wire guests or advance ticket sales for our live shows? Well, you can be if you sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of the inside live wire scoop delivered directly and conveniently to your inbox. Just click keep in touch over at Live Wire Radio dot org and we will be sure to make sure you hear it all first. You're tuned in to Live Wire each week, of course, we ask our listeners a question in honor of Hari Kondabolu, his show, Snack versus Chef. We asked our listeners what is a snack that takes you back? And Elena has been collecting up those responses. Where do you see it?

  Elena Passarello: Oh, these are great. Dan would like to nominate as a snack that takes Dan back. Planters Cheez Balls, which we I loved those so much when I was a kid. My mother ate them and they came in, remeber they used to come in that can did you ever have them?

  Luke Burbank: Yes. Yes.

  Elena Passarello: According to Dan and this is something that I've noticed before, they don't taste the same anymore. There are so many snacks from my childhood, like moon pies. They don't taste the same anymore. Definitely Cheez Balls, where either my palate has gotten better or the snacks have gotten less tasteful.

  Luke Burbank: Yeah, I was. As a kid, we had a pretty healthy food household. Not because my parents were particularly obsessed with health, but I think my mom just thought junk food was more expensive. And so any time I got a chance to have like a Pringle or a cheese puff or anything that was just like highly, highly artificial, I was like very much there for it. And I feel like if I open up a can of Pringles and I did not eat all of them, I should be nominated for some sort of, I don't know, Medal of Self-discipline or something.

  Elena Passarello: A can of Pringles is a single serving.

  Luke Burbank: It really espouses a sleeve of Oreos. In my experience. You get a tall glass of milk, a sleeve of Oreos, and that's that's your night right there.

  Elena Passarello: That's 1 USDA recommended. Also a box of Girl Scout cookies.

  Luke Burbank: Also not officially a USDA recommendation. So what's another snack that takes all of our listeners back?

  Elena Passarello: Okay, how about this one from Andrew? Ripple chips and FOD. I guess FOD stands for French onion dip. And Andrew says nothing screams the Midwest get together like ripples. That would be Super Bowl, birthday, funeral: FOD.

  Luke Burbank: I didn't know they were called ripple chips.

  Elena Passarello: I think that might be a regionalism as well.

  Luke Burbank: To be a midwest thing as well.

  Elena Passarello: Those are the ruffles. Ruffles chips are ripples. I wonder why. Maybe. Maybe because the Midwest is such an unruffled place. Oh, baby.

  Luke Burbank: Any kind of a dip that is shelf stable like it does not need to be refrigerated. I know. I'm going to enjoy that experience. You know, when you're like walking through the like, chip section and there's just all that stuff that's in a can, whether it's like sort of refried beans or something that is called cheese. But I mean, in quotes or for the dip that those are my like some of my very favorite kinds of bad for me foods to consume. I love a good shelf stable dip.

  Elena Passarello: Maybe that'll make the apocalypse okay because all of these foods are going to be around.

  Luke Burbank: All right. One more snack that takes one of our listeners way back.

  Elena Passarello: Oh, how about this one from Derrick? I feel like this is also regional. The snack that takes Derek back is Piknik, P-I-K-N-I-K, like you know it?

  Luke Burbank: Oh absolutely, the shoestring potatoes? Yeah also came in a can that you would you'd open that little like sealed sort of piece of I don't know aluminum at the top.

  Elena Passarello: Of the little tab and it would make that noise that like like that opening noise I could hear that from like a mile away, like a cat with a can opener. And then you would be like, I just want to, like, put all of these sticks in my mouth at once. That just seemed to be the goal.

  Luke Burbank: Yeah. Per shoestring, the potato, there wasn't quite enough there for a bite, but if you like, just grabbed a big like handful of them, you could get, you get a decent chomp in.

  Elena Passarello: Like kindling, you just get like a like a firewood sized bundle, (Right?) of PikNik.

  Luke Burbank: I mean, as an adult now with like a car and access to all of that kind of food, I'm surprised my whole house isn't just like shoestring potatoes, like Charleston Chew and like a Slurpees from, say, all the things that I like, you know, I had some of as a kid, but I just thought adulthood is going to be having all of this all the time.

  Elena Passarello: Because whenever you want it. Yeah. And now you're like, oh, no, I think I should have this protein bar and these okra slices.

  Luke Burbank: Well, let's not get crazy. I mean, I still got some not great habits. Well, listen, thanks to everyone who sent in your responses for our question about food that takes you back. We've got another question for next week's show, which we'll reveal in just a little bit. In the meantime, you are listening to Live Wire. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We're going to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere because when we come back, we're going to hear some music from Margo Cilker. That you're not going to want to miss. Stay with us. Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. Okay. Before we get to our musical guest this week, a little preview of next week's show. We've got a very special Women's History Month special in store for you all. We're going to be talking to Emmy nominated writer and comedian Jamie Loftus about Ack! cast, her hit podcast about the Cathy cartoon and why she feels like the character of Kathy never really got a fair shake. Then we're going to talk to Silvia Vasquez Lovato. She was the first openly gay woman to climb the Seven Summits, which are the highest mountains on all seven continents. She did this to really try to work through her childhood trauma. The book that she wrote about it is called In The Shadow of the Mountain. We're going to hear about that. Then we are going to catch up with a legendary indie musician and activist Ani DiFranco. During the pandemic, Ani recorded her 22nd album, all of them released via her own label, Righteous Babe Records, which she founded when she was like 19. A lot of people now, because the technology allows for it, they put out their own albums. Ani DiFranco, at age 19, had this already figured out. Hmm. So I'm going to talk to her about that. And as always, we got a question for our listeners. Elena, what are we going to be asking the folks?

  Elena Passarello: Okay. I think we asked a similar question to this last year, and I have to say it was one of my favorite audience card moments.

  Luke Burbank: Very illuminating.

  Elena Passarello: So don't let us down. Wonderful audience members. I can't wait to learn a whole bunch of new things as the answer to this question. What unsung or undersung hero from women's history would you like to shout out? Yeah, Shout from the rooftops. Woo!

  Luke Burbank: The good news and bad news is that the bad news is there are have been many women that have been undersung in history. The good news is we're going to hear about more of them. There is a long list of people that we should be talking about more and elevating more. So if you've got an answer to that question, go ahead and hit us up on social media over at Twitter or Facebook or at Live Wire Radio. Pretty much everywhere. Oh, and you can also check out our podcast over on Spotify. This is Live Wire from PRX. Our musical guest this week is a singer songwriter who spent the last six years touring internationally as well as all across the U.S.. She's also a regular fixture on the music festival circuit. Pitchfork says her debut album, Pohorylle, showcases her distinct personality with vivid lyrics and lovely, thoughtful arrangements. Check this out. It's Margo Cilker, right here on Live Wire. Hi, Margo. Hi. Welcome to the show.

  Margo Cilker: Thank you.

  Luke Burbank: I have to tell you that about a year ago, I was in my car. I was listening to OPB. I was listening to Think Out Loud. And they had a segment that was people suggesting or recommending the songs that had gotten them through the pandemic. And somebody said this Margo Cilker song, Tehachapi. And I heard it. And I pulled the car over and I literally texted our executive producer and said, Can you please find who Margo Cilker is and see if we can have her on Live Wire. And here you are. It worked!

  Margo Cilker: Wow. Here I am.

  Luke Burbank: I'm curious. When you when you first started playing music, like, how old were you?

  Margo Cilker: I was singing before I could do many other things. I grew up singing and I was in my first band when my sister Sara was born. We've been doing music together ever since then, and I started a guitar when I was 12 years old in like a lunchtime guitar class. And we we learned how to sing like Simon and Garfunkel.

  Luke Burbank: Do you remember the first song that you could actually play on guitar?

  Margo Cilker: I believe it was Hound Dog.

  Luke Burbank: I actually heard there was a really great profile on you on National Public Radio, and it really focused on the idea that you and maybe at that time you might have been living in eastern Oregon. Yeah. But the idea that you have spent a lot of time living in pretty rural parts of the country and you make a certain kind of music, and how do you connect those ideas? How do you relate to the folks in in Golden Dale when maybe you don't share all the same worldview?

  Margo Cilker: Well, it's you know, my my M.O. has always been, like to meet people where they are. And as my life unfolded, it turned out I just wanted to kind of be connecting with people of all different walks of life and coming from different backgrounds. And if anything, there's kind of funny, like coming back into urban settings for shows. Like sometimes I'll have like a cow poop on my shirt sleeve or something, and it's like, Oh, okay, It's probably not everyone moving in and out of this greenroom is dealing with that. But that's that's something that sometimes is a little distinct. But yeah, I mean, it happens.

  Luke Burbank: More than you'd think. We had Kishi Bashi here just covered in manure is wild. They'll cut that out. Don't worry. So what song are we going to hear, Margo?

  Margo Cilker: Well, I know I'd like to do well, I said I was going to do one song, but maybe I'll just go ahead and do Tehachapi. Let's leave it up to the people you want to hear Tehachapi?

  Luke Burbank: I wasn't trying to put pressure on you. I really wasn't.

  Margo Cilker: Oh it's all good. I'm used to performing under pressure. It wasn't much of a warning. He disappeared one morning. Put his mattress up on the back of a pickup truck, I'vebeen working. My shoulders were hurtin' I've been learning. How to turn my muscle into something. Will you think of me, will you think of me on your way back to Tehachapi. In Sonoma County where the grass is feisty. It could put a tear in your eye. Make your nose run like it was wanted. You were down the water and I was out in the pasture and that far growing in the Petaluma. And I brought those two together. Will you think of me? Will you think of me? On your way back to Tehachapi. Will I cross your mind, down the 99. Will you think of me on your way back to Tehachapi. Told you I was willing. But you heard struggling. Tell me, how does a girl with a family like yours end up so desperate? Well, it's these little feats that keep me going. And the day that I quit trying is the day my heart stops growing. Will you think of me on your way. Back to Tehachapi. Will I cross your mind? Down the 99. Will you think of me on your way back to Tehachapi? Baby. Won't you think of me on your back to Tehachapi.

  Luke Burbank: Woo! Margo Cilker! That was Margo Cilker here on Live Wire at the Alberta Rose Theater. Her latest album, Pohorylle, is available now. You can also catch Margo at a town near you. She is currently touring with the Drive-By Truckers. All right. That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests, Hari Kondabolu and Margo Cilker. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines.

  Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather de Michele is our executive director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Our assistant editor is Trey Hester. Our marketing manager is Paige Thomas, and our production fellow is Tanvi Kumar. Yasamin Mehdian is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer, and Our House Sound is by D. Neil Blake.

  Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the Regional Arts and Culture Council and the James F and Marion L Miller Foundation. Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Robert Peacock, Portland, Oregon, and Kristen Finley of Vancouver, Washington. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to Live Wire Radio dot org. I'm Luke Burbank. For Elena Passarello and the entire Live Wire crew. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week.

  Speaker 5: PRX.